Earlier this month I asked the readers over at WeblogToolsCollection if they found trackbacks still useful. As predicted, the comments were all over the place with many valid points.
Some of the readers were confused about the difference between trackbacks/pingbacks, and rightfully so. So what is a trackback and what is a pingback?
Trackbacks and Pingbacks?
For brevity’s sake, a trackback is a URL manually submitted by the post author to another blog stating that, “Hey, I referenced or added onto your post.”
A pingback, on the other hand, is automatically sent to any blog being linked to and the contents of the pingback are about a hundred words around the context of the link.
Although both trackbacks/pingbacks are different in their implementation, they typically show up the same way in the comments section. Therefore, from this point on, I will use the term trackbacks for both trackbacks and pingbacks.
Comments and Trackbacks
So what is a comment when compared to a trackback?
A comment is simply a reader’s opinion or belief being stated on your post. However, a trackback is a reader’s opinion or belief stated elsewhere (not on the blog post, but on an entirely different blog).
So what happens when a reader sees this?
- Comment 1: I like your point. It’s valid. Here’s my argument against it…
- Comment 2: [...] wrote several points about this topic and it has the implications [...]
- Comment 3: Too true. Commenter 1 makes a good point as well and I can see both sides.
Did you spot the trackback that Comment 2 left? Not exactly in context is it? All the comment is saying is, “Go here to read what I said.”
Would it not have been better that the reader left a meaningful comment on the post and stated, “I also expanded on your argument on this [linked] post.”
Trackbacks Are an Interruption of Conversation
I have been to too many blogs with several comments where the only conversation taking place is through external links.
I’ll go to a post with several comments only to discover that there are only trackbacks. This isn’t the blogger’s fault really. The default behavior for WordPress treats trackbacks about the same as comments.
Other times I’ll go to a blog and start reading through the comments, and then come across a section where trackbacks have started to take over the conversation. In the midst of all those trackbacks is a legitimate comment hidden amongst the trackback rubbish. The conversation on that blog was broken the moment the trackbacks started showing up in force.
Trackbacks and Group Writing Projects
I love participating in group writing projects. It’s a great way to discover blogs and it can provide inspiration for those periods when topics are running short.
I used to participate in them primarily for the links, but lately my strategy has changed, especially when participating in a large group project.
My recent contribution to a group project resulted in the Absolute Guide to Losing Readers. I decided to experiment and disable trackbacks for the post. And it seemed to work wonders for the conversation taking place on the post. The post did receive a lot of links, but my focus wasn’t on how many people would link to the post. It was on the readers and their comments.
If anything, I feel that group projects mis-use the concept of trackbacks and assume that every blogger is out there to get linked to. Getting linked to is not a bad thing, but I would rather have one in-context comment than a hundred linking to me in a list that says, “post by Ronald.”
Do Trackbacks Suck? What to do?
There are a few things you can do if you don’t like having trackbacks on your post.
For one, you can separate your trackbacks from your regular comments. I dislike this technique because of the necessity to edit template files. However, if you are comfortable with editing code, this technique should work for you.
Another technique is to disable trackbacks all-together from showing up on your blog. This can be done with my recent RA Project WordPress Plugin called Comment Sorter. From the admin back-end, the blog author can prevent trackbacks from showing on all posts. On the reader end, individual readers can decide their own trackback preferences.
What Do You Think?
I admit my opinion on trackbacks is rather harsh. I love links, but as stated earlier, I’d rather have a comment in-context with a link to the reader’s post.
So what do you think? Should trackbacks be disabled here at RA Project? Would you disable them on your own site? And what do you think about them on others’?
...paul (5)
Mark (5)
The Nerdy Nurse (4)
Dave from HootSuite (3)
agen888 (2)
Andrew Escar (2)
Anthony (2)
brad barfield (2)
Chris L (2)
dave (2)
As part of the post you have kindly linked to on my site I tried out a method of making my trackbacks (pingback actually) have context.
You can see the results on the post What is Your Opinion on Trackbacks? (there is a link to it in the related posts area above)
The result was quite interesting, but still not as good as a real comment.
Honestly, at the moment I think the best solution is not to display trackbacks but to add any really relevent posts as an update to the original, perhaps with a quote that properly explains.
The problem is not trackbacks and pingbacks. The problem is the way they are displayed. I feel it is important to know how that conversation is being carried on elsewhere. If blogging is about community the community is not just at one blog but all over. Trackbacks allow us to see what and how it is being discussed as the idea spreads. Interesting enough look at Seth Godin’s blog. He has disable comments but allows trackbacks.
There are several things that can be done. First separate trackbacks from regular comments, as you mention. Everyone edits template files anyways so if . I have not done this recently but it can be done and doing a quick Google search will find it. Second, the commenting system I feel is made better by using Threaded comments. Then it is clear who is being responded to and what the context is.
Personally disabling trackbacks is another way of saying what your readers are saying elsewhere does not matter, but maybe I just need another cup of coffee.
Taking the should you or should you not out of the equation for a minute.
From a users perspective, or more specfically my own perspective, quite simply, I get iritated so much when I see a string of trackbacks after I have read a number of continuous comments.
It happens quite a lot for me as I do tend to leave a number of comments across the board, but this is one aspect that really frustrates me. I went to a site just yesterday, about ExpressionEgine actually. It was a really good post with over a hundred ‘decent’ comments. So it was in this case interesting to read from top to bottom, listening to the conversation.
Then doh!!!
All of a sudden a number of messy trackbacks, at least about 20 towards the end of the comments.Now I thought this was a purposeful split of comments and trackbacks, but on further inspection it was now. THere were some valuable comments stuck and lost in the middle of this big lump of trackbacks. Which is a real shame in this case as their message was pretty much lost.
For a reader to want to take your post elsewhere shows an appreciation of the authors writing by referencing the original post. BUt I also agree with what you said about avoiding direct trackbacks, but just linking in a comment to the new article, with a comment about why or the reasons for and obviously a visial link on the new site to the reference and source of the original article. That is what I usually do myself when I come across a article I feel I can add enough to warrant it being a post on my own blog. I leave a comment just saying what I am doing and where, then make sure I link to the original site manually in the post.
Although this is not without problems. I have seen this method and it can look borderline spamming. “Hey, great article. Check out my blog where I post about this very subject.” May or may not be legit, but sounds sort of hookey to me.
So from that perspective alone, something needs to be done to tidy things up, separate comments from trackbacks etc.
I don’t disagree with what Lee said, taking the conversation elsewhere and carrying it on for a whole new audience is great and increases the shelf live of a valuable topic, but they can negatively affect the natural flow of things. Just like reading a decent magazine article, then coming across 12 pages of ads, before you can carry on reading. Just takes the enjoyment out of it.
INtersting this post, raises some good questions.
Graham Smith
ImJustCreative
Blog & Web Ramblings from ‘my’ Gutter.
I agree with Lee (although I won’t opine on whether he needs another cup of coffee). Pingbacks and trackbacks look butt ugly but it seems most bloggers prefer to read, pingback and write rather than simply comment. Rare is the topic (on my blog at least) that has any kind of natural flow of discussion so any kind of acknowledgment, pingback or otherwise is most welcome.
Thanks you all. You all are bringing up excellent points.
@Andrew,
I almost think a new type of Trackback/Pingback is needed. I’d call it a “remote comment”.
@Lee,
I’ll buy you a cup of coffee
Most of the time I discover people linking to me via my Dashboard or through Technorati. It’s very rarely through Trackbacks since most of them coming in are spam anyways.
I’d really like theme authors to take the initiative and provide two comment templates, one with regular comments/trackbacks, and one with them separated. This will in fact by one of my next projects to try to accomplish something along those lines.
Thanks for weighing in on the disabling trackbacks argument. From your opinion alone, I’ll likely decide to leave them enabled here.
@Graham,
You’ve hit the nail on the head when it comes to posts with a lot of comments and then suddenly trackbacks. It’s almost equivalent to hearing a radio program with a bunch of static and a comprehensible word is heard here and there in-between all the rubbish.
I can see how comments like that would look like spam. But I’d allow that here as long as the post did in fact reference mine. To me a good trackback-type comment would be a summary of the post you wrote, “I disagree with said point because x,y,z. Read more here.” or something along those lines.
@John,
I’ll buy you both a cup of coffee if you are at WordCamp
I definitely prefer the separation of the two. And I’ll probably take Lee’s advice and get threaded comments. I tried before (and failed miserably) because I wanted to keep the same look, but perhaps it’s time I put some elbow grease into it.
I completely second what Lee said. I discover blogs via trackbacks as well, and I like the subtlety of them.
I also have to admit that I don’t like threaded comments on a blog. They’re rarely good-looking and because of that, are sometimes hard to follow. Plus, it’s confusing for readers to be given multiple subscription options (feed/article’s comments/specific thread).
If you really want threaded comments, go one step further and integrate forums.
Good food for thought, though. I Stumbled this:
http://jakeshare.stumbleupon.com/review/17747284/
@Jacob Share,
I do and I don’t discover blogs through trackbacks. The majority of the blogs I discover are through comments, and through the WordPress dashboard. Rarely is it through a trackback, but that’s just me.
You bring up an excellent point on threaded comments. I’ve hesitated to install them just because it’s a pain to customize them. And perhaps they aren’t meant for that. In that case, I’d rather keep the comment layout that exists here since several readers have expressed that they really like it.
Thanks again for the stumble.